Continuation of Twitter discussion with @Agnostichrdcore

The following is a response to a Twitter user, Agnostichrdcore, that not even TwitLonger was capable of handling. This post serves no more purpose than for me to carry on the conversation, should he/she wish to read it.

When using copy-pasta from Dictionary.com, it would be more intellectually honest of you to post the entire entry. You forgot the synonyms:

disbeliever, nonbeliever, unbeliever; doubter, skeptic, secularist, empiricist; heathen, heretic, infidel, pagan.

With respect to these synonyms, I am all of the above. You may be a number of them yourself, but not as many as I am. Would this be because you DO actually believe in the existence of a god? I note that 'theist' is not listed. Nor for that matter is atheist. But why should this be the case?

Well, we could look at the other two entries you omitted on Dictionary.com:

2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.
3. a person who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic: Socrates was an agnostic on the subject of immortality.

It would appear that your source material serves to reflect what I have been saying all along; that gnosticism/agnosticism are positions on knowledge - and in our discourse that would be the existence of a god - whereas the definition of theist specifically relates to belief as is defined using the same source as:

1. the belief in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation ( distinguished from deism).
2. belief in the existence of a god or gods ( opposed to atheism).

It is interesting, is it not, that the definition for atheist does nothing to gel with that of its opposite? This would suggest that one of the definitions is a poor rendering of the real definition. 

The following link gives an example of the usage of a- as a prefix:

http://www.englishclub.com/vocabulary/prefixes.htm

Interestingly, it lists 'atheist' first and clearly refutes the Dictionary.com definition. The word 'atheist' is thus more correctly rendered as someone that does NOT have...

1. the belief in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation ( distinguished from deism).
2. belief in the existence of a god or gods ( opposed to atheism).

Which is why, myself, and the vast majority of my peers, render the definition as:

A lack of belief in the existence of a god or gods.

Dictionaries, it should be noted, are descriptive not proscriptive. Either way, with a little research, it is clear that my definitions serve as both a meaningful and useful description, and functions as a more accurate proscription than Dictionary.com has rendered it.

Just to wrap this up, perhaps you would be so kind as to explain to me what it means to say you believe in the existence of something for which you claim is not knowable?

UPDATES

(In red)

@mygodlesslife If you refute http://dictionary.com, what is the point of your argument? #fail #atheist

@Agnostichrdcore What? Like you refute its definition of agnosticism? Get a grip, and approach the content of the post.

@mygodlesslife dream has two synonyms, but that doesn't mean those two synonyms have same meaning. #fail #atheist

@Agnostichrdcore So you still maintain that an atheist cannot also be an agnostic? And you refuse to answer my question at my post's end?

@mygodlesslife do you have a understanding of human limitations? #atheist

@Agnostichrdcore Is that an admission that your definitions are wrong and you refuse to answer my question?

@mygodlesslife I already answered your question. would you mind answering my question ? #atheist

@Agnostichrdcore What's the answer to what it means to say u believe in the existence of something for which you claim is not knowable then?

@mygodlesslife lot of scientist believe in multiverse and parallel universe , can they prove it , no ? use your common sense #atheist

@Agnostichrdcore What's that got to do with the price of fish?

@mygodlesslife because you are fish-fucker #atheist

@Agnostichrdcore Wow! Ad hominems are a sorry excuse for an argument. You lose #faitheist.

@mygodlesslife your fish argument is so good lmao #atheist

@Agnostichrdcore It would appear you have misrepresented the meaning of the terms offered yet again.

@mygodlesslife what up with fish then ?

@Agnostichrdcore It was a response to your nonresponse, i.e your answer that had nothing to do with either my question or the price of fish.

@mygodlesslife which response and why

@Agnostichrdcore Why? Because it does not even begin to approach the question asked, hence my fish comment.

@mygodlesslife I answered your question from blog.

@Agnostichrdcore Where?

@mygodlesslife what it means to say you believe in the existence of something for which you claim is not knowable?

@Agnostichrdcore Le sigh. Yes. That was the question. Where was your answer?

@mygodlesslife it means life has a meaning and we are more than a lump of atoms.

@Agnostichrdcore Struth! I say that. How can U believe in something about which you have no knowledge? I didn't ask a Q about OUR existence

@mygodlesslife we have a lot of knowledge about god , all civilization and cultures are based in God.

@Agnostichrdcore So you DO claim to have knowledge of god? Doesn't that make you a [space] gnostic as opposed to an agnostic?

@Agnostichrdcore Also, as someone who claims no religion, where do you get this knowledge of god from? #Theist

@mygodlesslife society ,culture , civilization ,ancestor ,

@mygodlesslife knowledge of god is in your culture and civilization, which we experience . Get your head straight , i didn't imagine god.

@Agnostichrdcore Get my head straight? For a hardcore #Agnostic, you look an awful lot like a #Theist and a #Gnostic.

@mygodlesslife atheist try to think they are agnostic, because its the rational position. Don't flip flop

@Agnostichrdcore So do you accept that you are a #theist because you believe, and a #gnostic because you have knowledge?

@Agnostichrdcore I am an #atheist & an #agnostic because I LACK belief and do NOT know. You claim the polar opposite.

@mygodlesslife that's the exact definition and I don't need to twist words meaning like you.

@Agnostichrdcore OK. I'll poll my 5000+ followers on G+. What is your definition of agnosticism you would like to put forward?

@mygodlesslife @Agnostichrdcore You know what? I'll just go with what you have already stated.

POLL! Define 'agnostic' http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/554722

http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/554722

@mygodlesslife http://bigthink.com/ideas/43539 atheist #fail

@Agnostichrdcore That does nothing to defend your position. You claim knowledge of a god. You are not an #Agnostic of any description.

@mygodlesslife It defends my position , You can never be #agnostic and #atheist at same time, and also #agnostic are different from u sheeps

@Agnostichrdcore Except he didn't say that at all.

@mygodlesslife You are in a denial. I am sorry but #atheist are herd of sheep without common sense , reason , logic and knowledge.

@Agnostichrdcore Then prove it. Where does he say you can't be an atheist and an agnostic. You are so up your own arse.

@Agnostichrdcore Then prove it. Where does he say you can't be an atheist and an agnostic. You are so up your own arse.

@mygodlesslife haha, more denial

@Agnostichrdcore So you can't prove it? Sounds like you are in denial. I am tiring of your moronic defences and ad homs Put up or shut up.

@mygodlesslife No-one is forcing you to tweet you inbred moron.

@Agnostichrdcore Despite your disgusting tone towards me, I still want you to justify your position. You have categorically failed to do so.

@mygodlesslife I am #agnostic , who is defined by huxley not by Deluded #atheist nuts. Thank you

@Agnostichrdcore You're not even an agnostic by your own definition, let alone Huxley's or anyone else's. You claim to have knowledge of God

@mygodlesslife I don't have a personal definition for #agnostic also I never claimed that i have a personal knowledge of God. So STFU liar

@Agnostichrdcore You said, "we have a lot of knowledge about god". I didn't mention personal knowledge. You misrepresented me again!

@mygodlesslife No I didn't.You lied when you said said I have a personal definition of agnostic. Also You lied when you said "we have knowledge of God" . Think before you talk and stop putting words in my mouth . how ignorant are you ?

@Agnostichrdcore Now I can call you a liar. The 'we have knowledge of God' was actually a toned down version of what you yourself posted on one of your own Tweets, and has been immortalised on my website should anyone wish to check. The actual text was, 'we have a lot of knowledge about god' http://goo.gl/rXuWC I'll even highlight it for you.

As for your accusation that I am a liar with regard to having your own personal definition of agnosticism, you do! Anyone, including Huxley - although he never said this - who makes a knowledge claim on the existence of a god, cannot by definition make a negative knowledge claim on the same subject. Now I'll not call you a liar for that, but you are certainly delusional with regard to your position and what it means.

Now who is the ignorant liar?

@Agnostichrdcore Your mangling of the definition gave the impression you had your own definition. I could have been clearer.

@mygodlesslife I didn't mangle anything. So plz stop lying.

@Agnostichrdcore You mangled the definition by deliberately taking it out of context, only to claim it was me taking it out of context.

@Agnostichrdcore Look. Here's how the discussion went.

1. I ask what does it mean to say you believe in the existence of a god when you claim not to know about the existence of a god.

2. You say - eventually - that we have a lot of knowledge of God.
The context would suggest that you are responding to the second part of my question regarding your position on the knowledge of the existence of a god. If this is NOT the case, you have still have not answered the question, or, if this IS the case, you claim you DO have knowledge of God, negating your agnosticism and admitting that you deliberately evaded the question by changing the context.

Which is it?

Also, you have still not answered the question on why you believe at all.

Are you actually capable of answering the initial question or not?

If you can't, then I guess we are done.

@mygodlesslife I believe in god because i have reasons to. simple

@Agnostichrdcore That is the most inane answer I have ever heard. You are a moron of the first order. You'll be glad to know, I through.

And I am through. 


Oh, and for the record, here are the results of the poll. Not as many responded as I would have liked, but meh!

The winner was Dictionary.com's definition, not my own. In second place - with 10% - is Huxley's own definition. Rolling in last with just 4% is the definition - as close as I can make it - that you have managed to portray to me.


You will notice that two of the three definitions are stacked in your favour. Not that it does your case any favours.


This is not, of course, definitive in its own right, but it does go some way to demonstrate that your definition is not shared by the majority and is therefore meaningless as a descriptor as people commonly understand the word to mean.


  


For the record, here is the full conversation from its outset:

@Agnostichrdcore @FlyingFree333 Your profile suggests that you indeed believe in God's existence. Whether you know or not is a/gnosticism.

@mygodlesslife how?

@Agnostichrdcore "Trying to Understand God's mind" You make no allusions to His non-existence. On the contrary, the allusion is that He does

@mygodlesslife what is your point ?

@Agnostichrdcore You assume a position, if based only on your profile, that you believe God does exist. As such, you are not an #atheist

@mygodlesslife I am not a #atheist

@Agnostichrdcore So you are a theist, then. Being agnostic is a position on knowledge, not belief. You either believe or you don't.

@mygodlesslife agnostic is a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause,as God,and the essential nature of things are unknown

@Agnostichrdcore So you are a theist, then. Being agnostic is a position on knowledge, not belief. You either believe or you don't. 

@mygodlesslife

@Agnostichrdcore Maybe this will help explain the difference.http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/09/25/8419/

@mygodlesslife Read about Thomas huxley and learn why he created word agnostic before assuming meaning of word agnostic . Blog = ignorance

@Agnostichrdcore "I do not deny. I do not know—but I do not believe." RG Ingersoll.

@mygodlesslife Agnostic believes in God or Supreme being . If you don't you are a #atheist. We don't believe in religion , holy books.

From @xxxAlexooo @Agnostichrdcore @mygodlesslife False. Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims are unknown or unknowable.

@Agnostichrdcore That would be theistic agnosticism with irreligious overtones. You conflate knowledge and faith. Logical fallacy.

@mygodlesslife Dude who created the word agnostic said same thing. And i am pretty sure he has correct definition definition than you.

@Agnostichrdcore I was 13 when I realised the difference between belief and knowledge in a god. THH knew it too. Why not you?

@mygodlesslife Your unwillingness to learn the meaning of agnostic shows your ignorance. Thank you and good bye

@Agnostichrdcore You're a theistic agnostic. I'm an atheistic agnostic. By your definition, my position doesn't exist. That is just false.

@mygodlesslife last point , you cannot be atheist and agnostic at the same time. Only Thomas Huxley matters

@mygodlesslife agonstic is a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience
atheist [ey-thee-ist]  
a·the·ist   [ey-thee-ist]
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Origin:
1565–75; < Greek áthe ( os ) godless + -ist